what would you do..(senstive ethical problem)

[poseina]

As the pilot of an Air Force fighter jet you have been scrambled on a Sunday afternoon and told to locate a B-747 commercial air liner headed for LAX. As you lock in on the plane, your commander tells you over the radio that it has been commandeered by terrorists who plan to crash it into Dodger Stadium, currently filled with about 44,000 fans. He orders you to shoot it down immediately. If you do, you will kill over 200 completely innocent people. Will you obey the order?

[poseina]

I dare to say that there is no possiblities to evacuate the people in the Stadium..Now you have to think carefully..
Would you kill the 200 innocent people to save
the people in the stadium? what makes you think so?
what are the values that you are stands on?

[champion]

Having been in the military, and having worked in a prison where the possibility of using lethal force was a daily thought, I can say that I would shoot the plane down. Yes, the hostages in the plane will die, but they would die anyway; it's not like I'm causing something that wouldn't happen otherwise.

[USAFLady]

As the pilot of an Air Force fighter jet you have been scrambled on a Sunday afternoon and told to locate a B-747 commercial air liner headed for LAX. As you lock in on the plane, your commander tells you over the radio that it has been commandeered by terrorists who plan to crash it into Dodger Stadium, currently filled with about 44,000 fans. He orders you to shoot it down immediately. If you do, you will kill over 200 completely innocent people. Will you obey the order?

Yes, you obey the order. You are a soldier. You took this oath

I,(state your full name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

That means you follow the orders of the officers appointed over you. The military is not a democracy.

[Vash]

I don't know if I would agree to just anything they told me (but then again I will never join the army). I do believe that shooting down the plane is the right thing to do because if it crashes into the stadium then the 200 inncocent people will die along with many others whereas if you do shoot it down only 200 people will die.

[USAFLady]

Originally posted by Vash
I don't know if I would agree to just anything they told me (but then again I will never join the army). I do believe that shooting down the plane is the right thing to do because if it crashes into the stadium then the 200 inncocent people will die along with many others whereas if you do shoot it down only 200 people will die.

Well naturally military individuals are somewhat empowered to disobey an order if it is "illegal, immoral, or unethical". But if as a military individual you fall on this defense, IMHO, you'd better be darn sure of your facts before disobeying. Because if the law isn't on your side you will go down.

[champion]

USAFLady is right on the money with her last post. The interesting flip side to that is if you do follow an order, and it was illegal, you can't use the "I was just following orders" defense. So, either way, you'd better know your stuff.

I'm curious, is there anyone out there who wouldn't shoot it down? I'm very interested in the rationale for that side.

[pb]

Are you sure there is no way to force the plane down?

Are you sure the plane could not be crippled and forced to land in a less populated area?

There has to be a more creative answer then just shooting it down. Where is Hollywood when you need it!

[USAFLady]

Originally posted by pb
Are you sure there is no way to force the plane down?

Are you sure the plane could not be crippled and forced to land in a less populated area?

There has to be a more creative answer then just shooting it down. Where is Hollywood when you need it!

How would you force it down? A 747 isn't like a small single engine plane that you could fly on top of..... there is no way to force it down other than threaten to shoot it out of the sky, and the hijackers want to die anyway so you would only be helping them on their way.

I don't know how you could cripple a 747. And there are no less populated areas around Dodger Stadium.

As for Hollywood. There was a movie a few years back, Executive Decision, basic synopsis was terrorists had taken over a commercial airliner, they claimed it was rigged with some type of toxic fatal airborne vaccine and they were going to crash into the US. Hollywood, came up with a military plan that we would put commandos onto the plane through some underbelly hatch, and they would overpower the terrorists and save the day. Nice screen play but commercial airliners aren't equipped with anytype such hatch.... Nor does the military do inflight aircraft to aircraft people transfers.....

[mykiop]

having pulled the trigger as a young man,. it's your job so you do as you've been trained. right or wrong is not a part of it. to me your savoring desert. believe me when i say, the main meal never gets digested completely. by the way a herd of ghosts could'nt chase me onto a commercial airliner.

[USAFLady]

Originally posted by mykiop
having pulled the trigger as a young man,. it's your job so you do as you've been trained. right or wrong is not a part of it. to me your savoring desert. believe me when i say, the main meal never gets digested completely. by the way a herd of ghosts could'nt chase me onto a commercial airliner.

As I have previously stated... A soldier (no matter what branch) follows orders.

In regards to getting on a civilian airline, I finally took a trip in August of this year, and let me tell you. Had I seen a bunch of middle eastern men on my flight, my ass would have set the world record disembarking that thing. So I understand where you're coming from.

[mykiop]

i,m not comfortable with it so simplified. more of a programed adrenalen reaction not a lot of thought envolved one way or the other. i did not mean to over step you, you are right in what you said. so we agree kind of sort of, thats nice.

[USAFLady]

Originally posted by mykiop
i,m not comfortable with it so simplified. more of a programed adrenalen reaction not a lot of thought envolved one way or the other. i did not mean to over step you, you are right in what you said. so we agree kind of sort of, thats nice.

By no means did you step over me. While I am a 20 year vet, I have never been faced with what you were in Nam. So your thoughts and reactions/comments IMHO cannot be argued with or dismissed... Until one has walked in your shoes then we truly cannot understand where you are coming from.

And as long as we agree with a soldier is a soldier than we are kewl.

:)

misspelled a word in original post..... my bad.... nails to long....

[mykiop]

good for you, long nails huh. what scares me more is a word i can't pronounce ...kewl....i do not have a clue. i wear size 12's, and the nails umumummmmmfodder for the mind.

[USAFLady]

nail appointment tomorrow.... can type faster and better then.....

[mykiop]

o. k.

[Paradox Bain]

as soon as it's in my sights. :D